Scam messages removed? How do we stay informed?

[TheDukeOfIce]

Appreciate this new feature, and it’s a work in progress getting this system perfected.

It seems clear to me, there is a potential to abuse this system. We have already seen flippant claims made, that were shown to be misleading at best, outright false if viewed differently.

The thread I am specifically not understanding why it was removed was related to @bandit.sunglasses

Factual data was provided how that member made false claims and questionable statements —brass tax they took advantage of another community member.

So @OakleyBoss — what is the usage of this section, if these threads are deleted?

How does the community know, if there is no record?

 

[flyer]

 

[ZCForge]

Appreciate this new feature, and it’s a work in progress getting this system perfected.

It seems clear to me, there is a potential to abuse this system. We have already seen flippant claims made, that were shown to be misleading at best, outright false if viewed differently.

The thread I am specifically not understanding why it was removed was related to @bandit.sunglasses

Factual data was provided how that member made false claims and questionable statements —brass tax they took advantage of another community member.

So @OakleyBoss — what is the usage of this section, if these threads are deleted?

How does the community know, if there is no record?

There’s at least one other forum member the person in question did that to as well.

Even threads where a solution is reached are nuked....

 

[OakleyBoss]

There seems to be mixed messages here. First the section was really meant to be for scams not involving members since members should receive negative feedback around their deals. The new system prevents retaliatory feedback so there is no reason to not leave true accurate feedback.

So that is the first reason for deletion but the even bigger one is that the thread ended where the buyer said the deal was being made right. And looking at the 100% feedback Bandit has, there's no evidence of this not happening or of all these other bad deals. It was actually another separate member that reported the thread for that exact reason that its misleading given it was all resolved and a misunderstanding of some sort. Thats the reason these types of "grab your pitchforks" threads aren't allowed for members, because everyone piles on the "He's a scammer" train only to find out the dude went on a vacation for a week so he didn't respond or there was a typo in tracking info. This happens about 99 out of 100 times and usually even after negative feedback is left I get messages to delete it because it was wrong and it was a mixup.

Not saying scammers don't exist bc they do, and we do monitor the feedback system for negative feedback on members, investigate them and act accordingly. Just want to show how it typically plays out and why we're not trying to protect scammers, just trying to avoid mobs. As always open to conversation on the process as a whole. If you want to discuss a specific member feel free to PM me.

 

[ZCForge]

There seems to be mixed messages here. First the section was really meant to be for scams not involving members since members should receive negative feedback around their deals. The new system prevents retaliatory feedback so there is no reason to not leave true accurate feedback.

So that is the first reason for deletion but the even bigger one is that the thread ended where the buyer said the deal was being made right. And looking at the 100% feedback Bandit has, there's no evidence of this not happening or of all these other bad deals. It was actually another separate member that reported the thread for that exact reason that its misleading given it was all resolved and a misunderstanding of some sort. Thats the reason these types of "grab your pitchforks" threads aren't allowed for members, because everyone piles on the "He's a scammer" train only to find out the dude went on a vacation for a week so he didn't respond or there was a typo in tracking info. This happens about 99 out of 100 times and usually even after negative feedback is left I get messages to delete it because it was wrong and it was a mixup.

Not saying scammers don't exist bc they do, and we do monitor the feedback system for negative feedback on members, investigate them and act accordingly. Just want to show how it typically plays out and why we're not trying to protect scammers, just trying to avoid mobs. As always open to conversation on the process as a whole. If you want to discuss a specific member feel free to PM me.

So @yakuzafloralgangster is on vacation? I bet it’s a really nice one with over $20,000 of OF members’ money

 

[OakleyBoss]

So @yakuzafloralgangster is on vacation?

I hope so but no don't know what happened there - hope everything's alright but unfortunately things do happen to people. I'll be honest have had a few members disappear like that over the years and I usually fear the worst, especially since they were good people before.

But yes very unfortunate for all the active deals that were going on and people definitely lost money (hopefully some recovered from PP). But after that occurred, we investigated, reached out to him, removed his mod privileges and his exchange privileges so if he does come back, he can't do any more deals until he answers what happened. Usually the case in a disappearing act, banning the member guarantees you never get a PM - but removing their privileges prevents new deals but hopefully gets them to come back and answer.

 

[ZCForge]

I’m waiting for the day when @Oakman1992 sends me on a vacation. All I have to do is dangle some ichiro radars in his face

 

[TheDukeOfIce]

There seems to be mixed messages here. First the section was really meant to be for scams not involving members since members should receive negative feedback around their deals. The new system prevents retaliatory feedback so there is no reason to not leave true accurate feedback.

So that is the first reason for deletion but the even bigger one is that the thread ended where the buyer said the deal was being made right. And looking at the 100% feedback Bandit has, there's no evidence of this not happening or of all these other bad deals. It was actually another separate member that reported the thread for that exact reason that its misleading given it was all resolved and a misunderstanding of some sort. Thats the reason these types of "grab your pitchforks" threads aren't allowed for members, because everyone piles on the "He's a scammer" train only to find out the dude went on a vacation for a week so he didn't respond or there was a typo in tracking info. This happens about 99 out of 100 times and usually even after negative feedback is left I get messages to delete it because it was wrong and it was a mixup.

Not saying scammers don't exist bc they do, and we do monitor the feedback system for negative feedback on members, investigate them and act accordingly. Just want to show how it typically plays out and why we're not trying to protect scammers, just trying to avoid mobs. As always open to conversation on the process as a whole. If you want to discuss a specific member feel free to PM me.

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

Agree the other instances should have been removed, on this particular instance it felt like an advisory should remain.

To be clear, there was no scam, no fraudulent activity - money was exchanged and goods were provided.

There was however incorrect & less than honorable buyer tactics being used to — ultimately to lower the price. Then, if memory serves, was also statements inferring keeping vs purely selling to flip.

Why does it matter? I don’t want to sell anything to flippers. Those folks who use this community to pad their wallet or fund their own collection charging top dollar on items they purchased from fellow collectors for decent pricing detract from the community in my view.

That thread laid bare, with data and facts - the true intention of that individual.

So — where is the correct place to help inform the community of these folks?
Do you want us to polute their sales thread bringing up these issues?
If not here (Scams section), where?

 

[ZCForge]

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

Agree the other instances should have been removed, on this particular instance it felt like an advisory should remain.

To be clear, there was no scam, no fraudulent activity - money was exchanged and goods were provided.

There was however incorrect & less than honorable buyer tactics being used to — ultimately to lower the price. Then, if memory serves, was also statements inferring keeping vs purely selling to flip.

Why does it matter? I don’t want to sell anything to flippers. Those folks who use this community to pad their wallet or fund their own collection charging top dollar on items they purchased from fellow collectors for decent pricing detract from the community in my view.

That thread laid bare, with data and facts - the true intention of that individual.

So — where is the correct place to help inform the community of these folks?
Do you want us to polute their sales thread bringing up these issues?
If not here (Scams section), where?

I thought that thread was very productive. If that thread didn’t exist, the seller would have never gotten their money back. FACT

 

[Litos]

But after that occurred, we investigated, reached out to him, removed his mod privileges and his exchange privileges so if he does come back, he can't do any more deals until he answers what happened.

OMG